MacRumors
Apr 6, 01:20 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/04/06/motorola-xoom-tablet-sales-approximately-100000-units-so-far/)
Business Insider reports (http://www.businessinsider.com/motorola-xoom-sales-2011-4) on a research note from Deutsche Bank estimating sales of Motorola's Android-based Xoom tablet at only about 100,000 units since its late February launch, based on Android developer statistics (http://developer.android.com/resources/dashboard/platform-versions.html) showing that only 0.2% of Android devices accessing the Android Market during the second half of March had the Android 3.0 "Honeycomb" operating system installed. The Xoom is currently the only device on the market running Honeycomb.
http://images.macrumors.com/article/2011/04/06/141346-android_platform_breakdown_040111_500.jpg
.jpg/32556837/thumb_sub_zero_mortal_kombat_(bs).jpg "sub zero. reptile")
sub zero. reptile
mortal kombat sub zero vs
mortal kombat scorpion mask.
Business Insider reports (http://www.businessinsider.com/motorola-xoom-sales-2011-4) on a research note from Deutsche Bank estimating sales of Motorola's Android-based Xoom tablet at only about 100,000 units since its late February launch, based on Android developer statistics (http://developer.android.com/resources/dashboard/platform-versions.html) showing that only 0.2% of Android devices accessing the Android Market during the second half of March had the Android 3.0 "Honeycomb" operating system installed. The Xoom is currently the only device on the market running Honeycomb.
http://images.macrumors.com/article/2011/04/06/141346-android_platform_breakdown_040111_500.jpg
Multimedia
Sep 13, 11:20 PM
Well if the content is crap, who cares to watch? Content of TV is more important to me. I'd rather see a fascinating news show or program over rabbit ears than watch the Today Show in HD.
This wasn't clear the first time. You sounded like a crazed American Idol fan with your original post. And HD broadcasts are nothing new...This is NEW because it is on a 3 hour weekday morning telecast. That makes it NEW and NEWS. Nothing about content. I NEVER watch American Idol. You are judgemental.
Millions watch that crap so your opinion of it is irrelevant to the market forces.
This wasn't clear the first time. You sounded like a crazed American Idol fan with your original post. And HD broadcasts are nothing new...This is NEW because it is on a 3 hour weekday morning telecast. That makes it NEW and NEWS. Nothing about content. I NEVER watch American Idol. You are judgemental.
Millions watch that crap so your opinion of it is irrelevant to the market forces.
wnurse
Aug 26, 07:04 PM
Let's make it clear. The first revision of any highly integrated system is produced with an acceptable failure rate. With results coming in, failures recorded and internal testing continuous between the life of the first and second revision you will see a drop in failures in the next revision.
Every item that is in the next revision will have been tested, more flaws removed, etc. No piece of hardware is released with zero defects. [human interference aside such as dropping the product, overheating it, intentionally forcing failure]
If for every 1000 systems shipped approximately 20 fail, after a minimum predicted total hours, this 2% attrition rate is highly desirable. If you can't accept it you can stop using technology, now.
For every ten people bitching on this board about failures there is over 1,000 that don't.
I agree.. did you read what he was replying to?. The guy he was replying to detailed how he had a horrible time getting apple to pay attention to him. His reply seemed like he was blaming the guy for buying apple revision A product instead of faulting apple support for jerking this guy around.
Read what he was responding to, i think you will agree his response was ridiculous.
Every item that is in the next revision will have been tested, more flaws removed, etc. No piece of hardware is released with zero defects. [human interference aside such as dropping the product, overheating it, intentionally forcing failure]
If for every 1000 systems shipped approximately 20 fail, after a minimum predicted total hours, this 2% attrition rate is highly desirable. If you can't accept it you can stop using technology, now.
For every ten people bitching on this board about failures there is over 1,000 that don't.
I agree.. did you read what he was replying to?. The guy he was replying to detailed how he had a horrible time getting apple to pay attention to him. His reply seemed like he was blaming the guy for buying apple revision A product instead of faulting apple support for jerking this guy around.
Read what he was responding to, i think you will agree his response was ridiculous.
charlituna
Apr 6, 08:22 PM
I've posted several predictions over the past few months throughout this tread at Cinema5D:
http://cinema5d.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=25464
I took a look at the post and while I think your ideas are well thought out and very 'Apple' there are a few points that I disagree with.
First off the notion that Apple has to match QuickTime on Windows and Mac. I don't see that they do so I won't be shocked if they don't. Or they might do another QT Pro (but i doubt they would let you use your old QT7 key)
Also on the whole timeline issue. I don't see it as Apple changing one for the other. What I see is the user having a choice. They did this in iMovie so why not in FCS. Let folks work the way they feel is most efficient whether that is single line, flowchart etc. Same with how some of the tools function. Leave the old way and add the new one. Maybe both on the screen or perhaps a preference that allows you to use 'classic tools'.
I'm not sure I agree with the idea of them adding Aperture to the package, but I agree that they could and should have some kind of catalog program or mode. Something that could perhaps bridge the components and even perhaps output from other programs like Premiere, Maya etc even Logic Studio. It might even allow for importing and logging without having to open Final Cut and allow you to put in Meta data like location, names of people in shot, etc. Stuff that would make that iMovie People Search etc viable tools.
And while I like the idea of a plugin store I'm not sure it would be separate from the Mac App Store, particularly if this version of FCS required at least Snow Leo. even if it was its own face I could definitely see Apple putting it into that pay system.
And one thing you didn't mention that I think is plausible is incorporating FCServer into the set rather than as a stand alone sku. Perhaps not within the programs but put that disk in the box as well. if Lion is any example, Apple seems to be getting away from separating Server functionality and having that software in the box as well could help those on the fence about switching. Especially if the whole thing was no more that the current $999 (a little less would be even better)
mortal-kombat-vs-dc-universe.
Mortal Kombat Sub zero vs
Sub Zero by *digitalninja on
Scorpion follows Sub-Zero
Sub+zero+mortal+kombat+3
Mortal Combat figures
Sub-Zero, not Scorpion,
1st row: Scorpion, Sub-Zero,
Fans of Mortal Kombat should
Sub zero Mortal Kombat vs DC
totalmortalkombat.com
mortal kombat scorpion and sub
Mortal Kombat Scorpion and
sub zero vs scorpion mortal
This other Sub Zero#39;s just
http://cinema5d.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=25464
I took a look at the post and while I think your ideas are well thought out and very 'Apple' there are a few points that I disagree with.
First off the notion that Apple has to match QuickTime on Windows and Mac. I don't see that they do so I won't be shocked if they don't. Or they might do another QT Pro (but i doubt they would let you use your old QT7 key)
Also on the whole timeline issue. I don't see it as Apple changing one for the other. What I see is the user having a choice. They did this in iMovie so why not in FCS. Let folks work the way they feel is most efficient whether that is single line, flowchart etc. Same with how some of the tools function. Leave the old way and add the new one. Maybe both on the screen or perhaps a preference that allows you to use 'classic tools'.
I'm not sure I agree with the idea of them adding Aperture to the package, but I agree that they could and should have some kind of catalog program or mode. Something that could perhaps bridge the components and even perhaps output from other programs like Premiere, Maya etc even Logic Studio. It might even allow for importing and logging without having to open Final Cut and allow you to put in Meta data like location, names of people in shot, etc. Stuff that would make that iMovie People Search etc viable tools.
And while I like the idea of a plugin store I'm not sure it would be separate from the Mac App Store, particularly if this version of FCS required at least Snow Leo. even if it was its own face I could definitely see Apple putting it into that pay system.
And one thing you didn't mention that I think is plausible is incorporating FCServer into the set rather than as a stand alone sku. Perhaps not within the programs but put that disk in the box as well. if Lion is any example, Apple seems to be getting away from separating Server functionality and having that software in the box as well could help those on the fence about switching. Especially if the whole thing was no more that the current $999 (a little less would be even better)
CaoCao
Mar 3, 10:05 PM
Well Catholic people believe its a Sin to be gay, and in fear of parents saying anything about a gay man teaching their kids....Well being gay and teaching at a religious school and being gay just doesnt work...that sucks though for him
Being gay is not a sin, homosexual actions are a sin.
Bill, it's OK to react emotionally. We're people, not robots. :)
Query: How do meat bags such as yourself live with such amounts of water sloshing around in you?
Being gay is not a sin, homosexual actions are a sin.
Bill, it's OK to react emotionally. We're people, not robots. :)
Query: How do meat bags such as yourself live with such amounts of water sloshing around in you?
Sydde
Apr 27, 06:17 PM
The bigger deal here is the tendency of some fathers to name their kids the EXACT same name they have and add a "2nd". I've always thought that practice couldn't be stupidier. :P
Reminds me of how the producers felt compelled to drop the three from the movie "The Madness of King George III" because they were afraid people would give a pass as they had not seen the first two parts.
Reminds me of how the producers felt compelled to drop the three from the movie "The Madness of King George III" because they were afraid people would give a pass as they had not seen the first two parts.
jbellanca
Apr 27, 10:13 AM
If locations are recorded AND time/date stamp - then how much time you spend in each location is tracked inherently. If you "log in" at one time here and then another 20 minutes later - there's a history of time spent. Maybe not foolproof... but to say that no information is there isn't accurate.
Not true if what people are saying is true about every location only has one entry in the DB. The second time you hit the same tower, the old date/time stamp gets updated to the new one, effectively erasing the old one. This practice would leave gaps in the d/t stamp, invalidating whatever data you're trying to deduce about time spent at a location. (i.e., If I go from location A > B > C > D, then the next day revisit B & C, but don't get close to A & D, B & C will update with the new d/t stamp, and using your logic, it would look like I was never at B & C the first time, and just at location A a very long time.)
Not true if what people are saying is true about every location only has one entry in the DB. The second time you hit the same tower, the old date/time stamp gets updated to the new one, effectively erasing the old one. This practice would leave gaps in the d/t stamp, invalidating whatever data you're trying to deduce about time spent at a location. (i.e., If I go from location A > B > C > D, then the next day revisit B & C, but don't get close to A & D, B & C will update with the new d/t stamp, and using your logic, it would look like I was never at B & C the first time, and just at location A a very long time.)
saltyzoo
Apr 5, 05:12 PM
I'm not trolling, this is an honest question. But isn't a Final Cut pretty much worthless for commercial use without a way to put the results on Blu-Ray?
boncellis
Jul 20, 12:17 PM
I hate to burst everyone's bubble, but Kentsfield will not be appearing in any of the Pro machines for some time.
Apple will be using them exclusively in the Xserves, at for the most part of 2007. This will finally give Apple another way to distinguish their server line from their pro line.
That makes a lot of sense, actually. I hadn't thought of it, but with a server class processor ostensibly powering the Mac Pro, it begs the question of what the servers will get as an upgrade.
The simple answer--next generation server chips, duh!
Apple will be using them exclusively in the Xserves, at for the most part of 2007. This will finally give Apple another way to distinguish their server line from their pro line.
That makes a lot of sense, actually. I hadn't thought of it, but with a server class processor ostensibly powering the Mac Pro, it begs the question of what the servers will get as an upgrade.
The simple answer--next generation server chips, duh!
dwd3885
Mar 31, 04:24 PM
what is this bash apple competitors day?
mkruck
Apr 6, 04:18 PM
Isn't it amazing that so many of these XOOM owners also, coincidentally, "own" an iPad/iPad 2, or their spouse/mom/dog/significant other does?
Either there's a lot of exaggerating (astroturfing) going on, or someone's spouse/mom/dog/significant other has a lot more sense. ;)
Why, I own an iPad and a XOOM and a Galaxy Tab and that HP Windows 7 Slate thingy and a Nook and a prototype PlayBook and I can tell you from personal experience that the iPad is like 100x better than all of those! :rolleyes:
What's so amazing about it? We're talking $400 - $600 devices, and in the case of the Nook Color that I rooted, $200. You don't have to be Daddy Warbucks to own technology.
If you'd like, I'll line up all three tablets and take a picture for you. I'll even put my dogs in the picture. :)
Either there's a lot of exaggerating (astroturfing) going on, or someone's spouse/mom/dog/significant other has a lot more sense. ;)
Why, I own an iPad and a XOOM and a Galaxy Tab and that HP Windows 7 Slate thingy and a Nook and a prototype PlayBook and I can tell you from personal experience that the iPad is like 100x better than all of those! :rolleyes:
What's so amazing about it? We're talking $400 - $600 devices, and in the case of the Nook Color that I rooted, $200. You don't have to be Daddy Warbucks to own technology.
If you'd like, I'll line up all three tablets and take a picture for you. I'll even put my dogs in the picture. :)
epitaphic
Sep 13, 02:00 PM
I think you've misunderstood. Merom/Conroe/Woodcrest are one microarch now. That's Intel's point -- the core is essentially the same.
Conroe and its derivatives are a step away from Intel's former flagship NetBurst, but even these processors are a bit of a dying breed: during Intel's shift to 45nm, the company will no longer focus on derived microprocessor cores in favor of refined unified core architectures.
So what do you think they meant with M/C/W being a derived arch and Penryn,etc being unified archs?
From what I understood, they'll stop having different characteristics (FSB,RAM,Cache) and instead just differentiate them with MHz and core count. Hence all the stories that future Intel chips (starting with Penryn I presume) won't use FSB.
Conroe and its derivatives are a step away from Intel's former flagship NetBurst, but even these processors are a bit of a dying breed: during Intel's shift to 45nm, the company will no longer focus on derived microprocessor cores in favor of refined unified core architectures.
So what do you think they meant with M/C/W being a derived arch and Penryn,etc being unified archs?
From what I understood, they'll stop having different characteristics (FSB,RAM,Cache) and instead just differentiate them with MHz and core count. Hence all the stories that future Intel chips (starting with Penryn I presume) won't use FSB.
Mr. Retrofire
Apr 6, 07:08 PM
The GPU performance decrease is much more severe that you let on...
...VDA (Video Decode Acceleration) framework support : Intel 3000HD isn't supported, forget hardware accelerated decoding of Flash content in H.264.
Apple does not install Flash Player on newer machines, so this is not a problem.
Try youtube.com/html5 (http://www.youtube.com/html5) or ClickToFlash (http://rentzsch.github.com/clicktoflash/) or other HTML5-Safari extensions (http://www.macupdate.com/find/mac/html5%20extension)!
OpenCL. Big selling point for Snow Leopard, absent from most of their hardware line-up now.
You obviously know nothing about OpenCL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenCL). OpenCL is not hardware dependent. OpenCL programs can run even on old 300 MHz PowerPC processors, if someone writes a OpenCL-compiler for this platform.
...VDA (Video Decode Acceleration) framework support : Intel 3000HD isn't supported, forget hardware accelerated decoding of Flash content in H.264.
Apple does not install Flash Player on newer machines, so this is not a problem.
Try youtube.com/html5 (http://www.youtube.com/html5) or ClickToFlash (http://rentzsch.github.com/clicktoflash/) or other HTML5-Safari extensions (http://www.macupdate.com/find/mac/html5%20extension)!
OpenCL. Big selling point for Snow Leopard, absent from most of their hardware line-up now.
You obviously know nothing about OpenCL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenCL). OpenCL is not hardware dependent. OpenCL programs can run even on old 300 MHz PowerPC processors, if someone writes a OpenCL-compiler for this platform.
Squire
Jul 14, 08:50 PM
Macs have ALREADY had two optical bays (including twin CD drives). And none of these configs include two drives, you'd only have a second one if you wanted it.
*bold added
Where have you been shopping recently? Only one model PowerMac has ever had two optical drive bay.
The MDD G4 PowerMac towers (August 2002-June 2004) have two optical drive bays. The G4 PowerMacs that came before only have one (the lower bay is only big enough for floppy-size devices, like zip drives.) The G5 PowerMacs only have one externally-accessible bay of any size.
I would love the ability to install two optical drives, but your claim that Apple is currently shipping this somewhere is simply not true.
I think a brush-up lesson on the present perfect tense is in order. :D
Case designers aren't perfect, but they aren't idiots either. Some PCs have power supplies on top, despite the top heaviness and the extra path for the power cable. What's the reason? There must be some tradeoff involved or they'd never build them that way.
Good point. I just realized that my PC case has its power supply on the top. It's just a cheap-o case and it has never fallen over. I've never noticed any top-heaviness, as a matter of fact. In addition, the positioning of the cord hasn't caused any problems. In fact, it might actually be a better position for me-- while there is clutter on both sides of the box, there's nothing on top, making it easy to unplug.
-Squire
P.S. greenstork, where did your 'tar go? It's always been one of my favorites.
*bold added
Where have you been shopping recently? Only one model PowerMac has ever had two optical drive bay.
The MDD G4 PowerMac towers (August 2002-June 2004) have two optical drive bays. The G4 PowerMacs that came before only have one (the lower bay is only big enough for floppy-size devices, like zip drives.) The G5 PowerMacs only have one externally-accessible bay of any size.
I would love the ability to install two optical drives, but your claim that Apple is currently shipping this somewhere is simply not true.
I think a brush-up lesson on the present perfect tense is in order. :D
Case designers aren't perfect, but they aren't idiots either. Some PCs have power supplies on top, despite the top heaviness and the extra path for the power cable. What's the reason? There must be some tradeoff involved or they'd never build them that way.
Good point. I just realized that my PC case has its power supply on the top. It's just a cheap-o case and it has never fallen over. I've never noticed any top-heaviness, as a matter of fact. In addition, the positioning of the cord hasn't caused any problems. In fact, it might actually be a better position for me-- while there is clutter on both sides of the box, there's nothing on top, making it easy to unplug.
-Squire
P.S. greenstork, where did your 'tar go? It's always been one of my favorites.
rovex
Mar 22, 02:27 PM
Actually it is less than 50% the screen area of an iPad. Maybe you should check your math before calling someone stupid.
iPad display is about 45 square inches
Playbook display is about 21.5 square inches
I got confused, but nonetheless the smaller screen results in smaller body which in turn means better portability. Which A LOT of individuals want.
And before calling out irony, "your maths" has an 's' at the end. Thanks for playing.
iPad display is about 45 square inches
Playbook display is about 21.5 square inches
I got confused, but nonetheless the smaller screen results in smaller body which in turn means better portability. Which A LOT of individuals want.
And before calling out irony, "your maths" has an 's' at the end. Thanks for playing.
Chundles
Jul 20, 11:46 AM
Sorry I don't see that happening... Apple has basically always given developers a few months (to several months) lead time with the next major version of Mac OS X. That has taken place yet... so I don't see it being released at WWDC 2006.
He was referring to my post in which I was referring to MWSF '07, not the WWDC.
I still don't think we'll se a full release at MWSF but I think the date will be announced.
He was referring to my post in which I was referring to MWSF '07, not the WWDC.
I still don't think we'll se a full release at MWSF but I think the date will be announced.
leumluath
Aug 11, 11:56 AM
isn't it about time you guys got in line with the rest of the world? GSM has more than 81% of the world market.
...the GSM providers' coverage area is inadequate. I need a phone that works most everywhere (in the US), not just along expressways and in major cities. Bad as it is, CDMA is the only practical option for those of us who travel.
...the GSM providers' coverage area is inadequate. I need a phone that works most everywhere (in the US), not just along expressways and in major cities. Bad as it is, CDMA is the only practical option for those of us who travel.
orthorim
Apr 9, 01:24 AM
The trouble is .. I find the TDP numbers for Sandy Bridge very misleading. For example the previous i7 2.66Ghz dual core had a TDP of 35W and the current i7 2.2Ghz quad core has a TDP of 45W. Theoretically, it should only use 10W more when doing CPU intensive task, but according to anandtech who measured the task, the i7 Sandy Bridge Quad core was using almost 40W more when running cinebench.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4205/the-macbook-pro-review-13-and-15-inch-2011-brings-sandy-bridge/14
It just doesn't make any sense. Going by those figures, if the i7 dual core was 35W, the i7 Sandy Bridge quad core would be around 70W.
Not sure how this relates to potential MacBook Air Sandy Bridge processors, but keep in mind.. there must be a reason why Samsung went for the ULV processor in their 13" laptop instead of the LV one.
TDP != Max power draw
The quad uses less than double the power of the older dual core when fully loaded - that makes perfect sense. It's getting more than double done when fully loaded too, so it's 4 cores -and- improvements in power usage and efficiency. That's exactly what I'd expect from the next generation product.
Under normal use he 2011 mbp gets better battery life too. Hmm.... Maybe I'll get one after all, looks very compelling. Even if Illl have to hack the opti bay.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4205/the-macbook-pro-review-13-and-15-inch-2011-brings-sandy-bridge/14
It just doesn't make any sense. Going by those figures, if the i7 dual core was 35W, the i7 Sandy Bridge quad core would be around 70W.
Not sure how this relates to potential MacBook Air Sandy Bridge processors, but keep in mind.. there must be a reason why Samsung went for the ULV processor in their 13" laptop instead of the LV one.
TDP != Max power draw
The quad uses less than double the power of the older dual core when fully loaded - that makes perfect sense. It's getting more than double done when fully loaded too, so it's 4 cores -and- improvements in power usage and efficiency. That's exactly what I'd expect from the next generation product.
Under normal use he 2011 mbp gets better battery life too. Hmm.... Maybe I'll get one after all, looks very compelling. Even if Illl have to hack the opti bay.
Eidorian
Mar 26, 10:25 AM
I will wait to see what Spotlight is like.
skunk
Mar 3, 11:57 AM
Many people ignore the difference between homosexuality and homosexual acts. Many Christians insist that homosexuality is immoral. But homosexuality is a property, not an action. Nor is it a sin of omission. Homosexuality the property is morally indifferent. Homosexual acts are, I think, immoral. An action can be immoral, even if someone doesn't deserve any blame for doing it.On the other hand, people can live without morality, which is prescribed by outside influences, and live ethically, which is according to one's own lights.
I mentioned the Catholic Church's homosexual-abuse because skunk seems to think my opinions about sexual morality are feelings, not beliefs that are either true or false. Even psychotherapists I've talked with have agreed that feelings are neither truths nor falsehoods. Feelings are neither of those, but there are truths about feelings and there are falsehoods about them. If I only feel that homosexual acts are immoral, should some government outlaw feeling that way?Why would any government - how could any government - legislate your feelings? You can feel what you like, just do not dress up your personal feelings as "truths" which others should acquiesce in.
In another sense of the phrase "absolute truth," a truth is absolute when it's true whether anyone believes it or not. Even if I'm mistaken when I believe that homosexual sex is gravely immoral, it's still true that either they're moral or not moral.You may think they are "immoral", but your "morality" is yours, not anyone else's.
Some moral relativists even insist that if you believe that homosexual acts are morally acceptable, and I believe they're immoral, then we're both right. A moral relativist might say the same about the morality or immorality of gay-bashing. But someone is right when he thinks that gay-bashing is morally right, should a court punish him for gay-bashing someone?What do you think?
I mentioned the Catholic Church's homosexual-abuse because skunk seems to think my opinions about sexual morality are feelings, not beliefs that are either true or false. Even psychotherapists I've talked with have agreed that feelings are neither truths nor falsehoods. Feelings are neither of those, but there are truths about feelings and there are falsehoods about them. If I only feel that homosexual acts are immoral, should some government outlaw feeling that way?Why would any government - how could any government - legislate your feelings? You can feel what you like, just do not dress up your personal feelings as "truths" which others should acquiesce in.
In another sense of the phrase "absolute truth," a truth is absolute when it's true whether anyone believes it or not. Even if I'm mistaken when I believe that homosexual sex is gravely immoral, it's still true that either they're moral or not moral.You may think they are "immoral", but your "morality" is yours, not anyone else's.
Some moral relativists even insist that if you believe that homosexual acts are morally acceptable, and I believe they're immoral, then we're both right. A moral relativist might say the same about the morality or immorality of gay-bashing. But someone is right when he thinks that gay-bashing is morally right, should a court punish him for gay-bashing someone?What do you think?
bigandy
Aug 25, 03:10 PM
the vocal minority are always the ones who have problems :rolleyes:
wpotere
Apr 27, 12:05 PM
I lost mine a few years ago and it was re-issued so it isn't worn and faded. Does that mean I can't run for president? :eek::p
Androidpwns
Mar 22, 02:55 PM
Sorry, completely forgot about that.
iOS rocks in apps, but it does suck *** in terms of notifications and true multitasking.
Apple should've been the ones to buy Palm.
Spot on post :D
iOS rocks in apps, but it does suck *** in terms of notifications and true multitasking.
Apple should've been the ones to buy Palm.
Spot on post :D
mrsir2009
Apr 19, 02:47 PM
Hey leave Samsung alone! They're my favorite tech company after Apple :)
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